rant – Page 11 – JackSGreyson Says

insanescriptist:

To me it seems we’ve got a couple of issues that need to be spoken of.

First is a matter of translation. Idioms, in other words. Most people in our world, have an issue of thinking genius means smart about everything, including personal relationships when clearly that’s not true. You don’t have to go to college to see that, or hang out with the professors. Genii and very smart people sometimes make very stupid mistakes. We know that.

In Konoha and the Elemental Nations, genius refers to shinobi skills and not intelligence. You have genius shinobi galore, a few other genii but by and large they’re all extremely skilled for the most part. Exceptions would be where genius intellect and genius skills meet: Tobirama inventing jutsu, Orochimaru inventing/perfecting jutsu, Minato inventing/perfecting jutsu and so on. ~~See a trend?~~

Please note that all these genius shinobi inventing/perfect jutsu that can, in theory be used by anyone which is why Hashirama is not on the list with his mokuton jutsu. They don’t just learn them and use them, like it is implied Sarutobi and Kakashi do. Kakashi doesn’t make the earlier list of genius intellect and genius skills because he only made one jutsu when others have made multiple.

Sarutobi and Kakashi are still considered genii. Like Sasuke and Neji are considered genii. Because of their skills. Genius shinobi skills don’t take a genius intellect, but having the latter helps.

Which means that Konoha has a pointed problem of application of seeing/using genius outside of warfare and skills applicable to war. As does its people.

Next Point:

Even if they don’t admit it, they -everyone in the Elemental Nations- are always focused on war. It’s why Jiraiya and later Naruto are such oddballs because they want to focus on PEACE by NON-VIOLENT METHODS.

Politically speaking, they are politically always at the precipice of war, even during ‘peace’. It doesn’t mean that tragedy/death/trauma doesn’t happen then. It just means that it wasn’t enough to start a war.

Having the Jinchuriki actually does help as a deterrent; they either keep the ‘war(s)’ small-scale and ‘cold’ in that should shinobi here be near shinobi from other place, they’re likely going to try and kill each other without leaving clues to who did it. If they did or were caught at doing so, then war may actually break out.

Point the third:

War happens for a two reasons: resources and ideology.

Resources can be food, people, skilled professionals aka blacksmiths/whatever, water, minerals etc.

Ideology could be for religion, belief that things should be done differently or that this person should rule. Or because you really hate this bastard/group because they killed your brother.

A lot of the Warring Clan Era’s ‘Wars’ happened because of shinobi ideology and personal reasons.

The 4th point:

‘Wars’ during the Warring Clan Era mostly happened between shinobi clans. Most shinobi clans are skilled at being shinobi which makes them very avid consumers to any market. They need weapons, clothing, food etc.

Unless they live in Kaze no Kuni, where resources are at a premium. But that’s a different story.

Which because most of the shinobi aren’t fighting over food, means that they’re fighting for shinobi reasons aka their client, for the money, etc. Because they need money.

The reason the feud between the Senju and Uchiha became so big and infamous because those fights turned from professional to personal over generations. To the point that I wouldn’t be surprised if a few shinobi decided that not getting paid was worth the risk to try and kill a few Senju/Uchiha.

5th Point:

Villages are a new concept, not even a century old. There’s immense changes politically and economically and so on. And generations are a thing.

Generational Mindsets are a thing. Values passed down and so on. See baby-boomers vs Millenials and so on.

So really, you don’t have to look far to see that establishment of shinobi villages changes things. A lot of things, especially for those old enough to remember the village not being there. Which is pretty much anyone older than the young Sandaime, when he was the Nidaime’s student. As Sarutobi was about ten when Konoha was founded, that’s a lot of people.

The first generation born in the village is something I’m going to call Hopes and Dreams. Because that’s what their parents hoped for and so on. We really don’t much about them, being younger than Danzo, Sarutobi and so on but older than the Sanin. They’re just kinda there?

The point being, these were probably the first generation of shinobi to have a stable home-life during their childhood. Not constantly moving around from base to base, camp to camp worried about safety constantly. They were probably trained like their parents were, but due to being more sheltered from war aka not seeing it from the time they were born/walking, they were a bit more traumatized by it. H&D had parents transitioning from shinobi soldiers to parent-trainers/teachers because they had no idea how to parent that didn’t involve teaching them to survive war: because the village was a safe place, so long as people would defend it.

And they would, because they were shinobi.

*

The next generation tags along after this, which is what I’m going to call the genii-boom. Because there were a lot of strong shinobi/genii and most of them went down in a boom of self-destructive habits. Often messily.

Hatake Sakumo is a member of this generation. The Sanin are too. Their parents are either Clan War survivors or part of H&Ds. Which has effects, okay? Sakumo’s parents were probably Clan War Survivors and very much converts to the idea of Konoha, since the idea to avoid war at the cost of comrades apparently did not ever enter his mind. Very admirable on a personal level, very stupid on a political level. Tsunade and Orochimaru’s parents were probably CWS too who may have died in the 1st great shinobi war or shortly after. Jiraya has no parents mentioned, so he doesn’t get the CWS mindset from his parents. Instead, Jiraiya is very much a H&D-child; lots of optimism, still train just in case.

As you can see, because the concept of Village is new-ish, the concept of thinking outside personal politics is also a new thing. Village Reputation now exists and is shown by its shinobi. Which is why Sakumo is reviled by his peers because as a genius shouldn’t he know how his actions effect the village? The fact Sakumo chose to atone for this personally by suicide instead of by other means also speaks to him thinking like a CWS instead of a member of Konoha. The fact that it orphans Kakashi and he doesn’t think it will really matter as Kakashi is a brilliant shinobi already speaks more about this.

The Sanin were pretty much the stars of this generation btw. We also know how this all went. This is when trauma really starts to get noticeably worse, to the point of phobias. Because they’re not used to friends/family/comrades dying in droves like CWS are. War becomes very abhorrent to most of them.

This marks a shift in politics here, at least for Konoha.

They want to try to avoid war.

This is probably when the idea of the Chunin exams came to be.

*

Now the next gen, I will say is the Parent Generation. These are the parents of the majority of Naruto’s cohort in academy and as ninja peers.

Their parents fought in the 2nd Great Ninja War, while they were young. Like, no, daddy’s not here because he’s on the front lines and momma’s been injured real bad so she can’t be a shinobi anymore.

They grew up in war-time, if not at war. There was a break for about a decade and then came the 3rd Great Shinobi War, which they fought in as teens and young adults.

This results in a sort of mental dichotomy. You have parents being loving parents, yet also very capable killers. Most of those shone here are remarkably mentally stable, caring to friends, killers to enemies.

Although nothing really explains the Yondaime’s actions to Naruto except him being a village leader and securing power in Konoha for a future generation. It’s nice that you believe in him, but that is not how you fatherhood.

*

The next generation is the Sensei-generation, being about a decade younger than the Parent Generation.

Raised in war-time, fought in war as young teenagers. Comrades dying and so on. Very terrible, very traumatic.

Itachi catches the tail-end of this generation, severely traumatized by the one battlefield he saw. To the point he doesn’t want war but wants to dedicate his life to that of pacifism. Itachi makes no sense, really.

Also, Kabuto also is here. As a baby, but he’s here.

*

The next generation is the Kyuubi-generation, being mostly made of Naruto’s peers and a little older. They grew up in peace, and the first death they experienced personal loss for was Asuma’s, followed by Neji’s sacrifice.

Any other death related to enemy-shinobi so that was just business. Even then, they seem remarkably hesitant to kill? Except Sasuke and Gaara.

No one is denying that they’re talented but they’re very soft and underprepared for actual war and death. Like Gaara killing in the Forest of Death freaked Team 8 out a lot.

Sixth Point:

Villages are new. Village politics are new.

Sandaime had two examples to look up to on how to rule Konoha. The Shodai, and Nidaime.

I get the feeling that the Shodai wasn’t much of a policy maker/ruler? Like here, I make village. Laws um… ask my brother.

Now the Nidaime, being a genius can actually apply his genius intellect to ruling. Like bureaucracy, fear him. He probably set up all sorts of regulations, laws and so on. We know he had a hand in creating the Konoha Military Police, he probably created AnBu too.

When the Sandaime took office, both of them were also very dead.

So Sarutobi ends up working international politics, village politics and so on without a mentor or much of a clue to go on. Just saying that Sarutobi earned his Hokage hat in war, finished the war, while trying to figure out how to Hokage. He then raised his students, got married and had kids, and so on while trying to Hokage and parent at the same time, which was more difficult seeing as how Asuma ran to the Daimyo-Guard and his sibling is never mentioned?

Sarutobi also has to deal with the generational shifts and the mindset in his shinobi. Don’t want war?

I’ll see if I can avoid it. Would you be willing to sacrifice one of your members Hyuuga-clan? Thank you. War averted.

See the think about Sarutobi is that he adapted his mindset for when there’s peace vs when there’s war. He became a parent who could be a loving father and a God of Shinobi.

Danzo didn’t. Danzo is still very much a CWS. Survivors don’t make good rulers. They’re too busy working on surviving to rule in any long-term feasible way.

Point Seven:

When you write a Naruto character please pay attention to their world and what it means to them/how it has effected them.

This means generational mind-sets, the history of the world, the ideology of shinobi and how closely a character adheres to that.

I have my issues with the manga and anime itself, but these are the issues I have with fandom. Kishi’s rather terrible with strong female leads but he was very good at showing how generations, history and parents -or lack of- shaped his characters.

Both good and bad.

What say you @blackkatmagic and @hiruma-musouka

@jacksgreysays what do you think?

This is a fantastic read (thanks for tagging me, @book14reader) and I agree with most everything here. There are some clear generational differences in Naruto that do affect characterizations, cross-generational relationships, as well as the reader’s consumption of the manga. There are a few tangents (not arguments because they’re not against what @insanescriptist said, so much as just… sideways) that struck me as I was reading this:

1) clan vs “civilian” shinobi

I’m not sure if this is implied, but the generation midsets that insanescriptist describes best works with clan kids or those who have shinobi parents and become shinobi themselves. It’s not quite analogous to university education or immigration status, but there is this sense of being the first shinobi in the family (or being an orphan and becoming a shinobi) influences how children learn about what it is to be a ninja and how that relates to the village:

Take the Kyuubi-generation: of the Rookie Nine, only Team Seven aren’t part of active shinobi clans with Naruto being an orphan, Sakura being civilian born (… if we’re going by manga instead of anime and even then, they aren’t clan shinobi), and Sasuke having lost his clan at around age seven. Some of Team Eight and Ten are even clan heirs/children of the clan heads!

What this means is that, given their familial duties, the other Rookie Nine are raised to be aware of if not their actions reflecting the entire village, then their respective clans at the very least. Team Seven? Doesn’t really have that. Oh, sure, Sasuke keeps in mind an idealized version of what the Uchiha clan would want, but he doesn’t actually know; he lost them too early to get a real idea of that. Sakura has no clan connections, which means it’s only her teammates/sensei which connects her to the idea of the ninja side of the village–a somewhat mellower version of Naruto’s precious people schtick.

Which partially explains why Team Seven’s team melodrama is literally effecting things like foreign relations–each of them think so much of themselves as individuals that they don’t even bother with how this might look like to the rest of the world. Sasuke never being declared a missing nin and the “kidnapping” Killer B? HOW COULD THIS POSSIBLY GO WRONG?! Oh, Naruto will just talk to the Kumo team so they won’t declare war on Konoha/demand Sasuke’s head–no biggie. Team Seven doesn’t understand the political ramifications of their actions–well, maybe Sakura, only because her shishou is the Hokage–and it has to do with them not being clan kids, not being raised entrenched in this system of group over individual.

Extend that to the other generations–of the genii-boom (Hatake Sakumo and the Sannin) only Tsunade is part of a clan, while Orochimaru is a confirmed orphan and Sakumo and Jiraiya’s parentage is kind of unsure. Orochimaru leaving the village (I mean, despite the whole “crimes against humanity”) means he actually full on left the village–missing nin status, creating a rival village, eventually coming back to kill the Sandaime. It’s a very individualistic take on being a shinobi.

Contrast with Tsunade who–even though her clan is basically now herself, she was raised with the name and the responsibilities–though she leaves, never becomes a liability to Konoha. She never acts against the village. In fact, she comes back when asked to (and sure it took a pathos based argument from Naruto) and becomes the Hokage. Not only is that a point for her motivations–that she never had anything against the village per se–but also for her reputation: even decades of “retirement” couldn’t diminish her power when she stepped into office.

An invasion and recently killed Hokage should have made Konoha prime prey for the other villages–in particular Kumo and Iwa, given their previous historic grudges against Konoha. There should have been a following invasion, especially at that point in time when Killer B and Yugito were so much better trained than Konoha’s singular jinchuuriki.

But I digress.

While I don’t really know what the Hatake family was like or who even Jiraiya’s parents are, I think it’s safe to assume that they probably weren’t from clans or not very big clans at least. So Sakumo failing a mission to save his friends? Makes sense if he’s not a clan kid–he doesn’t have that bigger picture trained into him, his version of the village is through the people he knows (ie his teammates… is this just fanon or canon, but the teammates on that mission were they his genin teammates?).

And Jiraiya? He was asked to be Hokage first before he passed the buck to Tsunade–he rejected even though the village needed a strong shinobi in power ASAP. And, yes, you can argue that he’s head of the spy network, etc, etc, he serves Konoha by being out in the field and anyway it’s time to bring Tsunade back into the fold. Yes. But there’s nothing to say that he couldn’t have delegated his spy network to someone else–or assigned someone else to get Tsunade while he played interim Hokage. No, he was still being too butthurt about the Sandaime preferring Orochimaru over him to step up.

—

2) de-escalation of Kages as killers

I don’t even know where I’m going with this, but I think it’s super neat how (ate least with Suna, Konoha, and Mizu) that the Godaime are all known for not being killers? Because Tsunade is most famous for being a revolutionary medic nin, Terumi Mei for being a politician, and while Gaara is known for being a killer it’s only when he became less homicidal that he became Kazekage.

I mean, sure, it’s not like there were many other choices (given the whole weird Kazekage bloodline thing) but I feel like if Gaara had stayed that crazy loose-cannon, regardless of how powerful he is, they would have gone with Temari as Kazekage with Gaara as her barely leashed weapon of mass destruction. (Though having three out of the five major villages have female rulers would have been super cool).

Then Naruto is basically ninja messiah espousing “peace via non-violent methods” so it’s still following that trend even if he is literally the strongest being in the world.

—

3) Kyuubi-generation is not our generation

Unfortunately? I feel like this is something that didn’t become obvious to me until afterwards because it felt like they should be. They grew up alongside me the reader, so it felt they should be. And there was such a dissonance during the epilogue–similar to, but not as strong as the epilogue for the Harry Potter series–like, an almost disappointment that everyone just paired up and had children and maintained the status quo. With Harry Potter, it was especially disappointing because there are years that match up to the real world and so we know how old everyone would be right this very second if it were real. Naruto series, not so much.

The Kyuubi-generation, despite all their radicalism in their youth, are mostly just perpetuating what they know. Traditionalism of the village lifestyle they grew up in being passed down to their children because, hey, they grew up in peace and maybe we shouldn’t rock the boat. But you know what? They’re still being trained as warriors even though it’s supposed to be world-wide peace. If this really were a successful peacetime, their kids wouldn’t be trained with weapons they’d be trained for healing (always can use more doctors) or sealing or other nonviolent ways to apply chakra. We’ve seen that this is possible–the Fire Temple has monks who don’t use chakra for offensive abilities–but Naruto doesn’t make that change. And, yes, maybe it’s because he doesn’t know how. For all that he is ninja messiah he was raised as a weapon alongside all the other Rookie Nine/Konoha Twelve.

(Also, the women are keeping house and the men are out at work and I hope to god this is not how my generation turns out. Wth, this is some Stepford Wives bullshit).

How do you feel about that Sidestory where Shikako was found cold and unconscious by her mum as a child? I find it interesting, since it’s one of the only glimpses where we can see how she’s initially affected by the nature and atmosphere of this new world that her mind/body’s trying to adapt to. There was this other reincarnation fic where, after completing the plot, the OC’s body stops working and suddenly refuses to accept whatever supernatural elements she has and starts dying. (1)

May 16, 2016 jacksgreysonLeave a comment

I view that chapter more as Yoshino/Konoha’s interpretation of what is happening with Shikako into terms that they already know, a case that has precedents… Actually, I’m now wondering what if previous cases of chakra hypersensitivity were other reincarnated people who may or may not have been able to handle chakra as well. Because, that would be really cool? A little bit like Reincarnation Roulette…

(Maybe this is something for the Team Medic AU!AU, where Shikako researches her own diagnosed condition out of curiosity and discovers a mission/secret society spanning generations… the only other living person with hypersensitivity is in their eighties and couldn’t overcome it enough to become a shinobi, but they have been keeping records of what’s happening in the world to pass on to the next member of their unofficial club)

I do think it’s an issue more of mind over matter–her consciousness is confused by the existence of chakra (much less chakra coils and tenketsu points) that her brain can’t actively process it. Especially given that chakra is a mix of spiritual and physical energy, if half of that–her spirit/soul–doesn’t expect chakra, then it’s like a person’s immune system attacking itself.

I suppose I’d have to read the other reincarnation fic, but I’m not sure I like the idea of the OC’s body ceasing to function after completing the plot. Mostly as a story teller–it brushes into breaking the fourth wall without actually doing so? Because how would the gods/spirits/supernatural elements deem how much interference is enough interference?–but a little but in a morally outraged sense because that’s so unfair! To have to follow a set destiny and then get killed immediately after? I would be pissed off!

I can see how this would work in a time-traveling fic: travel back in time five years, and after five years when you converge with your departure your body just disappears. But for a self insert OC fic, I guess I can’t quite understand why that would be.

I mean… if you were born into a sickly body and pushed through all the plot points out of sheer desperation and determination and only after everything became peaceful your body gives up the ghost then… yes. I can see that. But if you’re in a healthy body that functions well enough through the plot points and then dies? It seems out of nowhere? The best kind of “plot twist” is one that has been hinted at in the very beginning. For example, in Sixth Sense (… spoilers…) it’s established pretty early on that Cole can see dead people. So Dr. Crowe being dead the entire time? That is both thrilling and believable.

A more believable “Shikako’s body breaking down post Madara/the plot” route would be if she somehow overreaches in battle. Like if she turns into shadows and kind of burns out–she can go back to her human form as a thin shell, but she’s mostly shadows inside and she can’t really use chakra because… she is chakra? OR!! (sort of like my Stories of Ancient Gods) if she were somehow “infected” with Kaguya’s genetics, or maybe bijuu chakra and her chakra coils are forever ruined.

So probably something that has an in-world cause, not some kind of fated deadline; that’s kind of against the style of DoS in which Shikako’s existence is one small change that snowballs out of control. She only rarely makes deliberate changes, and even that is more pulling on friendships she’s gradually built than any single moment of action.

(I hope I’m not coming off as dismissive, anon. It is an interesting idea, but I just don’t see it happening in canon DoS or even the recursive fic more grounded in DoS canon. Maybe something like Dreaming of Sunshine Switch by Lady Hallen: like Shikako’s body is kind of unstable in the canon universe and so her chakra is kind of like antimatter? Her existence is so discordant that it can’t sustain itself in the canon universe…

Or, like I said, a time travel fic in DoS–what if everyone fails to stop Madara/Kaguya/whoever so she uses sealing to go back in time and fix her own changes to the universe… So there’s still the same “complete the plot” deadline but the reason for her body turning on itself isn’t reliant on fate/omnipotent writer)

So do you think there would be a lot of expectation/pressure to get married and have kids for Shikako, and Konoha in general? Later in life, closer to 20s I mean.

May 16, 2016 jacksgreysonLeave a comment

Hm… I feel like for the kids who are clan heirs–rather than seconds–there would be some pressure to get married and have heirs. I mean, as we saw with Shikaku’s chapter of Sunshine Sidestories, there is still a very strong traditionalism–and even though that’s the generation before, I don’t think it would relax so much to allow no heirs whatsoever. In contrast, there is the possibility that heirs with seconds–such as Shikamaru with Shikako, Hana with Kiba, and Chiyako and Shino (who I am still unsure if he is the heir or not, but him being the older brother in a matrilineal clan is something that just resonates with me)–would be exempt from having children if their respective seconds have viable heirs instead (though given the seconds in question that’s kinda unlikely).

However, given that most of the kids are clan heirs and have been raised as such (with the understanding that they enjoy the benefits of the clan because they have duties to the clan) they probably also accept that having children eventually or preparing their heir is one of those duties. I mean, they don’t need to have children in their twenties, but I think if they’re nearing thirty and they’re not even married the elders of each respective clan would be worried…

I wonder about artificial insemination, though, because… like… does that exist in this future or not? Because if so, you’d think that canon!Sasuke would consider that to rebuild his clan? Or some of the more practical minded members of Konoha would want to revive such a powerful bloodline? And it’s not like Konoha as the forerunner of the health industry wouldn’t be able to figure it out?

Then again, given how Shippuden was basically “Uchiha melodrama almost destroys the world,” maybe a practical mind would want to prevent the revival of the Sharingan users.

Really love your Shikako/Gaara stuff :) On a world-building(ish) note, if I had to guess why Temari’s marriage was accepted by Suna despite causing inheritance problems I would say it had a little to do with Gaara’s approval, the fact the Konoha was the dominant power, and the fact the the Nara owned farms. A steady, fairly priced source of food has got to be pretty important in the desert even if only as a “for emergencies” option.

May 7, 2016 jacksgreysonLeave a comment

1) Thanks, anon 🙂

2) Gaara’s approval and Konoha’s dominance I kinda figured, as well as Temari probably straight up saying she’d marry that lazy, sleepy-eyed weirdo and no group of heckling old men could tell her no. But I never considered that last one–the Nara owned farms–and that’s a fantastic point!

I guess I had been thinking about Temari and Shikamaru’s marriage as a political matter only on the most shallow of levels (I am a little bit ashamed; my sisters would laugh, I am always ranting about political ramifications whenever we watch movies that have princesses/princes getting married).

Because it’s canon (or at least DoS canon) that the clans have holdings/businesses outside of Konoha itself. And while the Nara might not necessarily have farms for foodstuffs, you know the Akimichi definitely do, and probably all three clans function as a single unit (you marry one of them, you marry all of them :P).

I guess given the importance of both Temari and Shikamaru to their respective villages, there would be massive bride price/dowry exchanges. Probably trade agreements, food from the Nara/Akimichi/Yamanaka and… hm… maybe considering those clans are pretty big in pharmaceuticals they’d get glassware from Suna (this is from PolarPanther’s Against the Odds Ch14, which is a fantastic HPxNaruto crossover fic and the only complaint I have is that updates are veeeeeeeery slow) which they probably have given their expertise in poisons. Or maybe they more directly trade for poisons (so that the Nara and Yamanaka can develop cures and sell them to the Konoha hospital).

And since there’s a steady exchange of food and other goods, it’ll need a steady supply of shinobi to deliver/protect that trade. Which, you know, Suna really would appreciate.

My headcanon for the Kazekage line thing was that it wasn’t actually law – the hat had passed through the family because they were actually the most powerful. However precedence combined with Gaara and siblings popularity made the elders worry that the people of Wind, if not the people of Suna, would demand the bloodline continue which could put them in a bind but gave them no legal standing to make demands about Shikadai.

May 7, 2016 jacksgreysonLeave a comment

jacksgreysays:

jacksgreysays:

[regarding the second Author’s Notes of Dreaming of S(elfishness)]

That does sound a lot more practical than what I understood of it. Like, I thought it was a weird monarchy-esque divine right sort of thing. Which is also why Gaara was made the jinchuuriki as opposed to a random baby–it wasn’t a “this is most convenient” + “if I can’t sacrifice my own child what right do I have to ask someone else to do so” like with Minato–because with Gaara it was planned. So they could have put it in a different baby, but I suppose only their bloodline is “strong enough”

And then Temari’s choice to marry Shikamaru and live in Konoha was kinda the equivalent of abdicating? Not that eldest child is first in line or anything but that between her and Kankurou, if anything should happen to Gaara, she’d be the best suited to be Kazekage, since she is more powerful than him. And then kinda in that line, her children–even one born into the Nara clan–would probably be stronger than any of Kankurou’s children?

Or something like that.

Part of me kind likes the idea that Sunagakure is designed more like a monarchy? Because the villages having different laws of succession just seems really interesting to me–the villages probably weren’t created the same way, you know? Like while Konoha was essentially a giant alliance of Fire Nation clans so as not to continuously kill each other, I kinda figure Kiri has always been more cutthroat. Because you have to be pretty damn fearsome to get multiple islands to listen to you rather than each individual island having their own mini-village. Or, in contrast, my headcanon for Uzushio is that it was basically like a university and each island had a specialty and the Uzumaki were basically the only ones who were generalist enough to be objective leaders.

With Suna I kind of imagine that it was originally an oasis that the Sabaku siblings’ ancestors controlled with a (literal) iron fist and that’s why they reign. Obey me and my descendants and you have access to our water. And then the village formed and even though the water disappeared by that point it just became obey me because I am powerful…

Sorry for ranting, anon. ~WORLD-BUILDING IS GREAT~

Well it is canon that the Wind Daimyo and Suna haven’t exactly been on good terms–what if there’s a historical reason for that? Like, they’ve just never been on good terms as much as reluctantly cooperative terms. Maybe the Wind Daimyo’s Court was grown around a second oasis–one whose owners used business and trade rather than raw power to cultivate their control and eventually turn into the nobles. They’re not fully rivals–because merchants need protectors and soldiers need supplies–but they don’t particularly like each other. And as soon as the Daimyo could drop Suna and switch to a different, cheaper source of protection they did so–hence the economic struggles leading to the attack during the Konoha Chuunin Exams.

The Gaara thing was, well, Shukaku wasn’t transferred from jinchuuriki to jinchuuriki–he was sealed in some item (a giant kettle?) and then sealed into the not-yet-born Gaara through his mother’s womb (which… what). According to the Naruto wiki the Kazekage just wanted a jinchuuriki to make the village powerful and couldn’t use Temari and Kankurou because they weren’t compatible. I don’t know how he decided Gaara was, or if they just went ahead with it regardless, but

Konoha I feel like there’s not really an immediate equivalent that comes to mind because the hat wasn’t really limited to certain families. Like, the Yondaime was basically one step up from being a nameless orphan–as opposed to the many clans of Konoha who never had a member become Hokage. I mean, the Senju aren’t even one of the Noble clans of Konoha (Aburame, Akimichi, Hyuuga, and Uchiha) but they’ve had three Hokage while the others have had none.

But, yeah, for the others I totes agree. I also really like your Kumo idea that it’s a straight forward challenge for leadership, or, at the very least, it’s a very out in the open transition from leader to leader so theoretically other people could step up and make an attempt but probably don’t because there’s already an obvious contender in mind (apparently all of the Raikage are named A? And according to the wiki the Nidaime Raikage was the Shodaime’s guard… although the Yondaime was the Sandaime’s son so…). Iwa probably thinks the Sandaime has made a golem of himself which isn’t exactly a problem, since literally no one else is old enough to know what it’s like to not live under his rule, but it’s also very creepy.

I always figured that it was just the current Hokage kinda pointing and being like–that one, that’s the one who get’s my job. Then again, after the Sandaime died, the council did try to make Jiraiya into Godaime (and only accepted his rejection when he threw Tsunade under the bus… in a kind way). And that sort of explains why Danzo didn’t just swoop in and take the hat for his own.

I also now headcanon that it was the Uchiha clan that were most vocal against Danzo being Hokage (despite or, maybe, because an Uchiha was Danzo’s teammate?) and so the massacre was revenge–in a dish best served cold kind of manner.

I wouldn’t say Suna has only one major bloodlimit–we probably just haven seen them due to the Konoha-centricity of canon–but it is probable that the Metal/Sand manipulation is the most outrightly powerful. I mean, arguably, the Byakugan isn’t an offensive bloodlimit–it’s just really good at seeing things. Even the non-Mangekyou versions of Sharingan are passive abilities–copying jutsu and seeing chakra and maaaybe augmenting genjutsu. Actually, except for the Senju’s Wood Release (which basically went extinct) the most offensive bloodlimit in Konoha is… the Akimichi Multi-Size ability, I think?

Anyway, the other bloodlimits of Suna are probably very passive or not all that helpful outside a desert.

I kinda like the idea of Minato full on having basically popped out of nowhere. I mean, not literally, but him being total civilian stock and outstripping all of his peers not because he’s stronger or faster or has more chakra or a bloodlimit, but because he was such a goddamned genius and he worked hella hard. His claim to fame was the Hiraishin–which arguably anyone could use if the could just understand how the hell he did it. It’s not constrained by his bloodline or ridiculous amounts of chakra, just no one can figure it out. (Fingers still crossed for TenTen, but I’m trying not to get my hopes up).

And it also makes Orochimaru being passed up for Hokage all the more cutting–because basically the only thing different between Orochimaru and Minato is that Minato had a conscience.

Untitled Naruto/DoSxKHR brainstorm (2016-02-03)

February 4, 2016 jacksgreysonLeave a comment

Because I did this and now I can’t stop thinking about one of the ideas, so I need to purge it before I can do anything else.

Okay, so I’m going with the same organized crime set up that the “mafia” in Katekyo Hitman Reborn has. So the “yakuza” of this world is comprised of eleven clans–there used to be twelve clans but the Uzumaki were almost completely wiped out over a decade ago–though many clans are no longer just one family. For example, the Hatake clan, also on the brink of extinction, only has one actual member of the clan name; but it has other people who are part of the clan. Such as Rock Lee, the protege of Maito Gai who is the Hatake clan’s second in command.

The Uchiha clan is a strange topic because while every clan has a “specialty” of sorts (for example, the Akimichi are “import/export specialists” and the Shimura are “antique weapons dealers”) theirs was being part of law enforcement. It was why they were so powerful amongst the yakuza clans because they literally were able to get the other clans out of jail. For a fee, of course (I mean… I’m thinking the Yamanaka might be lawyers? But they’re pretty well known for being defense lawyers for yakuza members, whereas the Uchiha were double agents).

Until one Uchiha member betrayed their clan and double/triple-crossed them to internal affairs. Now all of the clans have to keep a far lower profile than they used to enjoy. Although, in general, the clans were moving away from actual crimes and into more legitimate ventures.

Except one clan does not like this. The one clan who specializes in the yakuza continuing to be deadly and at odds with each other. That’s right, the Shimura clan [of course, later, it gets out the Danzo was responsible so all sorts of bullshit, like it is in canon (such as the destruction of the Uzumaki, the large-scale imprisonment/seppuku of the Uchiha, etc.)] But for now that’s a secret. All anyone knows is that the yakuza world is being set at odds against each other, and unless they can find a way to unify themselves then they’ll be plummeted into war.

Well, Naruto (obviously a Sky Flame type) is not going to stand for this. He’s going to become Hokage!

In this world, Hokage is less about being a leader over the clans so much as it is being the Champion of a certain cause. So the Sandaime was Hokage in order to sway the yakuza in one way or another during maybe WWII (I’m unsure how it was in Japan, but I remember learning that the mafia in real life were against fascism and actually helped the Allies against Mussolini, so maybe I can say it’s the same in this weird magical KHR world… but I don’t really want to get into that here). Tsunade’s cause during the Godaime was most likely something to do about the medical field. Have no idea what Minato’s cause was, but his tenure as Yondaime was very short and probably only happened so quickly because the matter was very urgent (and regardless, the Uzumaki clan still ended up destroyed, but at least everyone else is fine. I guess)

But I digress.

The clans are beholden to the Hokage, not out of any sense of duty, but out of choice–because in order for someone to become Hokage every single clan has to acknowledge the person as a worthy person to follow. EVERY SINGLE CLAN.

Well, that shouldn’t be too hard, right?

Naruto, as the last Uzumaki, has been fostered with the Sarutobi clan for most of his life, so that’s easy. The Akimichi, Nara, Yamanaka, Aburame, Inuzuka, Hatake, and Senju don’t really take that much convincing either given… well… they don’t want to go to war either. Peace is prosperous for most of the families, and Naruto is a good kid. The Hyuuga have always been the holdouts for Hokage votes, so that’s no surprise there. And obviously there’s going to be some overarching will he won’t he thing with Sasuke committing his clan to a cause that Naruto of all people is leading. But, you know, eventually that happens.

And then that’s when Danzo’s machinations are revealed and there’s no way that the person behind all the war-mongering is going to agree to a Hokage championing peace.

And even if the rest of the clans unify against the Shimura clan, Naruto still can’t be Hokage due to laws put in place by the very first Hokage (which still holds all clans beholden). And even if they won’t fight each other–well Danzo can easily start a war with the Triads in China or, hey, he’s heard whispers that the Italian mafia are making incursions into Japan.

But then: TenTen saves the day!

And I’m not even mostly joking. Because poor orphan TenTen actually is a Shimura–more specifically, Danzo’s granddaughter via his disowned child who tried to start a civilian family but ended up killed (for unrelated reasons?) and TenTen somehow found her way back to the yakuza by being adopted by one of the Sarutobi family? I DUNNO.

So she essentially steals the Shimura clan away from Danzo–or at least the Shimura vote for Hokage, which leads to Naruto becoming Hokage and deciding the best way for peace is to get rid of Danzo which would make TenTen head of the Shimura clan anyway…

And then at the end, the KHR characters make a cameo, meet Hokage Naruto and his twelve guardians, and probably strike up an international alliance. Or something.

Anyway, for clarity, here are the clans:

Aburame – Shino
Akimichi – Chouji
Hatake – Lee (via being Gai’s protege)
Hyuuga – Hinata and Neji
Inuzuka – Kiba
Nara – Shikamaru (and Shikako, if this is a DoS version)
Sarutobi – Naruto (via fostering) and TenTen (via adoption/fostering)
Senju – (Sakura, via subordinate family)
Shimura – TenTen (and Sai, via Danzo is a creeper)
Uchiha – Sasuke
Uzumaki – Naruto
Yamanaka – Ino

Now as for Flame types well… since there are twelve guardians (plus or minus Shikako and Sai depending on if we’re doing DoS version or a canon version) I thought it would be cool if there are two of each Flame type (minus, of course, Naruto’s sky type):

Storm: Kiba and Lee (if DoS version) or Ino (if canon version)
Sun: Sakura and Chouji
Lightning: Shikamaru and Shikako (if DoS version) or Lee (if canon version)
Rain: Hinata and Neji
Mist: Sasuke and Ino (if DoS version) or Sai (if canon version)
Cloud: Shino and TenTen

edit: Ugh, you know what? I’m not too keen on these Flame type assignments… so I’m going to redo them. Given my headcanon that biologically female characters in the KHR universe tend to have a blend of multiple Flame types (which is why there are generally so few female Guardians who are restricted to a specific Flame type) the kunoichi will also have multiple Flame types though will have a predominant one for simplification sake.

Shino – Cloud
Chouji – Sun
Lee – … should he even have Flames? To mirror his canon storyline
Hinata – Lightning, Sun
Neji – Lightning
Kiba – Storm
Shikako – Rain, Storm
Shikamaru – Rain
Sakura – Sun, Storm
TenTen – Cloud, Lightning
Sai – Mist
Sasuke – Mist
Ino – Mist, Rain

Which by type is:
Storm: Kiba, Shikako (secondary), Sakura (secondary)
Sun: Chouji, Sakura (primary), Hinata (secondary)
Lightning: Neji, Hinata (primary), TenTen (secondary)
Rain: Shikamaru, Shikako (primary), Ino (secondary)
Mist: Sasuke, Sai, Ino (primary)
Cloud: Shino, TenTen (primary)

So there’s not too much overlap of types and such and it fits better with personalities/clan abilities rather than I don’t even know what I was going with before…

If anyone wants to adopt this idea I would totally be up for beta and brainstorming, just that I personally don’t think I want to tackle this fic.

I agree with your assessment of EAH. There are to many overlapping characters for both franchise to inhabit one world. What I was thinking of was a mis-cast spell resulting in a world swap of the various main characters. The fic being the journey back to their world (if they want to go back), and maybe learning to be better for the journey. I’d be interested in Chad meeting the Charming siblings of EAH. I think all three of them would give him an earful. Cinderella’s Daughter too.

February 2, 2016 jacksgreysonLeave a comment

2/2 Also, it is my personal opinion Evie would have an amazing time with the fashion in EAH. but that’s more of a fun aside compared to a story plot.

I’m glad you enjoyed my little brainstorm 🙂

Chad definitely needs to get chewed out by the EAH Charming siblings and Cinderella’s daughter (they certainly do not approve of his ways)–although I think at first they would be bewildered by having an alternate universe half-sibling. And theeeeen go after him for his philandering ways. I also agree that Evie ending up in the EAH universe would be interesting–especially considering her “double” is one of the main characters with Snow White’s daughter being the other.

Descendants didn’t really explore the background myths beyond the strict villain vs hero categorization which I find a bit of a shame–yes Mal and Audrey had some conflict, but Evie and Snow White never even meet, there is no mention of Jasmine and Aladdin’s child or even the Radcliffes. And yes, I understand that it’s because the movie is primarily Mal’s story–and it’s meant to, at most, be a springboard for Mal to become her own person outside of her mother’s past crimes. But I do enjoy the mythos of the original fairytales, how to interweave multiple stories into a single tapestry. I like how EAH acknowledges the past and the characters actively keep that in mind–an almost literal, remember the past so as (not) to repeat history.

As I said before I don’t know all that much about EAH so I wouldn’t be able to juggle such a fic as the one you described, but it does sound like a fascinating read and I’d love to help you with brainstorming if you want to have a go at it 🙂

Cross-Post: Richie Todd Wayne Goes To Paris, Brainstorm (2015-10-06)

November 27, 2015 jacksgreysonLeave a comment

jacksgreysays:

A/N1: I guess I bit off more than I could chew for this story, it’s collapsed under it’s own weight. Rather, there’s too much set up for not enough plot in return. So below is the brainstorming/outlining/ranting of my thoughts regarding this fic. I dunno. Maybe I’ll come back to it, but probably not? I was a little overeager yesterday.

Again, Richie Todd Wayne is from @mgnemesi‘s babyfic verse.

Technically, this is a cross-post, only because when I thought I was going to write it I transcribed all of my thoughts onto an lj post for safekeeping.

So, original here. Dated 2015-10-06.

—

Because babyfic verse didn’t explicitly go the route of JayTim (though mgnemesi wanted to) and there was some consideration for JayKon, at least temporarily, my brain extrapolated and went–what if that’s because Tim leaves?

So it starts with the dysfunctional first impressions take two with baby– the fact that Jason trusts the baby with Damian of all people. And sure it’s actually because Jason and Damian have history, but to Tim it seems like “I would rather hand this baby over to a literal assassin than trust him with you.” And maybe Tim takes it as a remark on himself–I wasn’t really going to nerve strike him, but am I so suspicious/untrustworthy that you think I would do that to a baby?

And of course Alfred wants Richie to be raised in Wayne Manor, but Jason obviously has issues with the family. But this is even before Bruce has been brought back, so it’s only Dick and Damian in the Manor (because Tim has moved out–he’s not going to live with Damian)… so maybe it’s like. Jason is more comfortable in the Manor when Tim isn’t there–so Tim interprets it in a way that says, he is not trusted with the baby.

Since it is during the Red Robin arc, Tim is out of Gotham for the most part, anyway so it’s not a deliberate avoidance. During which, Jason and Richie are already pretty settled in the manor. Until he brings back Bruce.

Obviously it’s tense at first, but then it becomes clear that Jason’s not killing people because he’s got a baby! And, really, that’s all that Bruce wanted so it’s fine. So Bruce welcomes him back (never mind that it’s Bruce returning). Jason is also tense, but being a father has given him perspective–he’s not so angry or out of control–so they reconcile.

Meanwhile, Tim is like… they’re a happy family now. Without me. So he just jets. Since Bruce is back he doesn’t need to be Wayne Enterprise’s CEO/poster-boy. But he thrives when he’s necessary, so he tries to come up with more jobs he can fulfill.

So he starts with expansion of WE and Batman Inc into Canada, sees how everyone gets along without him. How quickly they are to take over/distribute his territory/patrols. How utterly unnecessary he is in Gotham.

Likewise he’s not needed with the Titans because they’re a Robin thing and he’s not Robin anymore. Sure they didn’t like him at first, but everyone collectively mellows out and begin to get along. Especially since they are JLA light. And while Tim never wants to be Batman, the others are still in line of succession and it just makes sense for Batman in training to be on a team with the other JLA in training.

So there’s really no need for him to go back (which he interprets as, he can’t go back).

While Tim interprets the family as not needing him, so he does other things elsewhere, the family interprets his actions as him being so swamped/busy. So they try to lessen his load. Like, Bruce took back the CEO position for WE because he thought Tim was being overworked–instead Tim saw it as, of course, I’m just a placeholder. Now I don’t have WE or Robin, I have to make a place for me. It’s a spiral. Everyone thinks he’s moved on from them, when in fact it’s Tim thinking I should leave before you kick me out.

And a lot of that mentality spills over. Once he establishes a team in Canada (as both Batman Inc. and JLA International, because he knows there are some metahumans and he does not discriminate, also, double the financing), he sees that they’re functioning well, that they can run without him. He’s unnecessary again [there’s definitely some influence from saccarines’ fic Correspondence].

He goes back to Gotham after establishing the Canadian team, sees how well they function without him, decides to go where he’s needed–i.e. establishing teams in Europe.

Europe does weird things to Tim–he broke a lot of laws there, it’s an older place, and the ways of world are different. Magic, not metahumans [Ladybug and Chat Noir?!]. The teams he assemble aren’t as wide-eyed innocent and stalwart as the North American teams. They’re darker, somehow–not that Gotham, world capital of the criminally insane isn’t dark as well, but the vigilante culture is so controlled by Bruce’s lofty standards that, in comparison, Tim’s European Batman Inc teams are more shades of gray and subtlety.

He’s pretty established as the voice/face of Batman Inc in Europe. London, Paris, Berlin, Athens (WE stimulates economy, Batman Inc protects the people). He’s not really the boss, but he has the most experience and he is the one who established them. He made them to function independently of him… mostly he floats between them, acting as an intermediary between HQs or them and mafia. He can’t get a foothold in Italy because the mafia are so established, but maybe he makes deals with them occasionally (more of that sketchy gray area). He probably does have some dealings with Ra’s al Ghul, but that’s really minimal to the story.

He very rarely goes back to Gotham–less and less frequently as time goes by–and definitely never the Manor when Jason and Richie are there. Because he doesn’t want Jason to feel like his home is unsafe, not realizing that the Manor should also be Tim’s home. He makes himself busy, makes himself necessary elsewhere. Avoids the entire family.

ANYWAY

Richie goes to Paris when he’s thirteen because he’s frustrated. When is he going to be Robin? Damian has officially become Batman and Richie was always going to be his Robin. He’s already had a lot of training because he literally was raised by all of the Batmen, Robins, Batgirls (Aunt Cass visits AT LEAST once a year, which is more than Tim does, because she’s not a neurotic mess of self esteem issues).

It’s been over a decade since Tim has come home/interacted with the family not in a professional capacity–either WE or BI [although, he did have Cass come over and help train his Europe teams].

Richie’s a little nervous around Tim because, with everyone else, his other “teachers” are just his family. He’s grown up with them–Aunt Stephanie was the one to buy him waffles before teaching him how to stitch a wound closed. His Dad taught him how to wire a bomb but still makes sure he doesn’t watch R-rated movies. But with Tim, it’s this stranger. And the thing is, they don’t really talk about him in the Manor. You don’t really talk about people unless they’re present in some way… maybe Richie grew up on stories of Red Robin/the third Robin (what, with Jay and Kon having had a thing a few years ago) but it’s not prevalent in his life. He’s a lingering ghost in the Manor, and even in the Titans Tower.

So Richie’s nervous, but Tim of course interprets that as “Oh, he hates me.” Because why wouldn’t he? As far as Tim knows, this is Richie, the son of Jason who hates his Replacement. The boy who’s in love with/going to be Robin of Damian, who hates his predecessor and literally tried to kill him.
But of course Jason doesn’t hate Tim, he’s just really fucking awkward around him. And… well, I don’t necessarily want it to also be DamiTim, but that is a possibility (and I’m always a sucker for DamiTim, or at least theoretically DamiTim–Tim is building Batman Inc, and Batman is now Damian. He’s building Damian’s empire).

But Richie has a crush on Damian… I want Richie to have a happy ending, but having your first love requited, especially when it’s for a man who will be your mentor/vigilante partner isn’t exactly going to lead to a happy ending for Richie… definitely one-sided Richie x Damian.

Richie is a good boy. He’s all of the hope of Robin within him. He is loved by his family and is all of their good traits. So when Tim is feeling low, saying that he can learn better from someone else, Richie replies with “They’re not you.”
Tim doesn’t think he’s part of the family, while Richie is the baby of the family. So there’s this gulf between them–the one who (thinks he) is unloved and the child who is most loved.

Richie is a lovable boy–and Tim doesn’t have any problem with training this boy. He’s going to be a Robin that Damian Wayne needs. That Damian Wayne wants. And Tim will do anything in his power to help make someone needed/wanted. Dick was also very lovable–loving and being loved, as was Jason whose love burned and was passionate and invited reciprocation, Stephanie loved easily, strongly, and it was easy to love her in turn, Damian of course would be loved. Tim thinks he wasn’t loveable–he loved but wasn’t loved in turn.

Training starts with undercover stuff, because it is the one thing that Tim is the best at amongst the family. It’s something that the European branches take pride in because they are more subtle, and it gives them a way to seem more than they are (each team is really three or four people, but each person has multiple identities so they seem larger), it’s their specialty. So at first Tim teaches Richie that, because he doesn’t know what else to do.
And after a week, Tim expects Richie to be bored and want to go home. Except, no Richie wants to stay, “I still have so much to learn from you.” And Tim’s just like… “Really? Like what? But… okay?” And he’s scrambling around trying to find what else to teach Richie–he doesn’t want to teach him the wrong thing, doesn’t want to ruin this Robin to be.

But he’s good at this. He basically raised Kon and Bart, he’s been training teams since he was a teenager himself, his self made job is to create and train teams to independence. He’s good at it. So long as Tim doesn’t get distracted by holding himself up to the ideal of Robin, he’s a really good teacher. He get’s more comfortable with Richie and vice versa, and then a month passes.

And Tim really doesn’t have anything else to teach him. But then they stumble upon this conflict. Because Tim thought he’d be gone after a week, and the family thought maybe a month but definitely after he’s done with training. Whereas Richie is like–I’m going to stay here forever, or at least until they let me be Robin.

At which point Tim is like… are you holding yourself hostage? And they discuss the philosophies of Robin. It’s something that Tim has been different about in regards to the role. With Dick it was “I want to help fight crime.” With Jason it was “I now have the power to do good.” With Stephanie, she was going to fight crime regardless, as Spoiler, but as Robin she’s Bat-sanctioned, Bat-trained, “I am getting the authority.” With Damian, Robin was a step to Batman–a Batman in training role.

But with Tim, he stepped up to be Robin because someone needed to step up to be Robin. Robin needs to exist as a complementary role to Batman–regardless of who fills the suit or what comes after.

It helps Richie understand Tim. Because it’s about being whatever Batman needs. And that’s why Tim is so messed up, because when he had Robin taken away from him he took that as a sign that he was not needed. Whereas Richie is raised with all these people, constantly reassuring him that he’s loved and that he doesn’t have to join the family business. And if he doesn’t he knows he will still be loved. His place is solid in the family, and that’s something that Tim doesn’t realize about family.

Tim tells him to go home. Don’t be so eager to be Robin right now. Or rather, be the Robin that they need. Right now Damian doesn’t need someone to fight beside him. He doesn’t need a Robin on the streets, he needs someone who will be there for him. It’s his first year as Batman and he needs to establish himself as a hero in his own right before he becomes a mentor, he needs time. So maybe what he needs from Richie is to give him that time… and Richie accepts that. He’s not as desperate to be Robin, he’s patient.

But Richie personally still needs to learn. Which Tim acknowledges as true. After all, Tim did a training trip with Shiva and so maybe Richie needs something similar. So Time is like… how much time do you have until school? Another month? Well for this month, you’ll be operating in Europe. It’ll be a taste of what it’s like to be an operative. Then the adventures of Richie Todd Wayne as Egg. And afterwards, Richie goes home, settled and stronger. Ready for Robin, but willing to wait.

… Except he bonded with Tim, and he knows how lonely Tim is, how unsure of his place in the family is. So he wants to bring him home (which is, basically what Alfred was trying to do from the start by sending Richie to Tim)… so Richie pulls a Parent Trap for Jason and Tim… or something like that.

—

A/N2: Uh… so yeah. I actually did all of brainstorming verbally in an hour long voice recording while I was stuck in traffic. There was a lot of cussing… and me yelling out OBLIGATORY TIM FEELS like… six times. Basically… I had a lot of feelings yesterday.

OH NO! So I was delving into the Miraculous Ladybug wiki (as I am wont to do when getting sucked into new fandoms) and I stumbled upon the Quantic Kids aka the original superhero team concept before the creators settled on the idea of the kwami and having only a Ladybug and Chat Noir duo.

Mostly, I saw the three/four “abandoned” characters and mourned because they had pretty cool character designs. In particular, I really liked Sparrow and how “normal human trying to fight crime without magic/superpowers” he looked. As in, a perfect candidate for Batman Inc–even his superhero name is thematic.

Basically, given that Mercury is a speedster, there is a Kid Mime with (most likely) telepathy power, and Melodie whose outfit and weapon frankly look super badass, I figure the “abandoned” Quantic Kids members would be almost a blast from the past for Tim; a lot of Young Justice vibes. It probably explains why he’s more fond of the team and prefers his Paris apartment even though–numbering at six with Chat Noir and Ladybug included–their team would be the largest and wouldn’t need Tim as an auxiliary, part-time member.

I mean, I guess what I’m trying to say is that if I were to revisit Richie Todd Wayne Goes To Paris it would definitely be a DCU x Quantic Kids crossover sort of thing more than it’s original DCU with some Miraculous Ladybug cameos. Like, Richie would be an outsider POV for the team, and they would be an outsider POV for the whole Wayne family drama thing.

Could you do a ShikakoxKakashi that is completely accidental? Like somehow, out of no where, Shikako seemed very pretty? And Kakashi’s horrible habits somehow become endearing and charming? And it’s all very WTF on both sides?

November 26, 2015 jacksgreysonLeave a comment

I don’t sh– hm… well… I mean, I guess if it’s–but they– hm…

HMMMM…

Okay, so I am a multi-shipper at heart and, unrelated, I am always fascinated in trying to mesh two different fandoms into a cohesive crossover/fusion. So it’s not entirely out of my interests to ponder how two people would function in a romantic relationship.

That being said, I’m also extremely wary of ships that have inherent problems–such as a teacher-student pair becoming lovers (long story short, I once played with fire and sort of shipped a thing which I knew going in was problematic, but didn’t realize until after I clawed my way out of the fandom just how problematic it was)

It’s not the age difference that bothers me ~~(because, if I’m going to continue being candid, I’ve shipped things with bigger age gaps)~~ but rather the power imbalance that a teacher-student relationship represents. Even if Shikako is no longer Kakashi’s student, being promoted to tokubetsu jounin, that’s still the basis which their relationship is built on–he’s teaching her kenjutsu and helping with her sensing, etc.

Like, not that I do ship it, but I’m less squicked with the idea of ShikakoxAoba than I am with ShikakoxKakashi, even though they’re the same age. Because Aoba, while taking a mentor-like role, is more of a “senpai” than a “sensei.” Yes, he helps her out and yes, he’s teaching her the way of an Intel ninja, and yes, she does follow his lead. But she could and has refused his orders (arguably, if you consider him asking about her missions as orders) and it’s a very finite mentorship–it’s more like on the job-training than an open-ended teaching of life skills like Kakashi. ~~(Oh no, have I convinced myself to ship ShikakoxAoba?)~~

THAT BEING SAID, while I am reluctant to ship ShikakoxKakashi as they are in DoS canon, I am wondering at the possibility of shipping them in a AU/alternate dimension/time-travelling sort of situation.

Now that I ponder it in a non-DoS-canon context, I can immediately think of two ways to do it:

1) older!Shikako x canon!Kakashi (via diagonal dimension travel)

Shikako falls diagonally into a different Naruto dimension, possibly canon so she doesn’t exist, and preferably aged up enough to about… Anko/Shizune’s age, maybe? (A little like @ladyhallen’s DoS Switch) She doesn’t land in or anywhere near Konoha, but she does end up thankfully close to where Jiraiya currently is; a Jiraiya who is a month away from heading to Konoha because the Chuunin exams are going to be held there.

With some persistence and hella ridiculous amounts of fuinjutsu discussion, Jiraiya believes her and agrees to take her on as a sort of apprentice in order to stop all of the horrible shit that will otherwise go down without her there. So they get there, a little earlier than Jiraiya would have done by himself, and so Kakashi meets Jiraiya’s newest student–the woman who dared to take the place of his idolized sensei.

At first, they do not get along. Kakashi because he can be an immature jerk and Shikako because she has literally never been on the wrong side of Kakashi’s ire. But it does differentiate canon!Kakashi enough from her sensei DoS!Kakashi, that I don’t feel weird about shipping them (even though, at first, Shikako probably is greatly bewildered by these sorts of feelings for someone who is literally a carbon copy of her sensei). Obviously, Shikako shows how much of a total badass she is and saves a good chunk of Konoha lives in general, but his students’ lives in particular that Kakashi just kind of drops all of his hostility towards her.

And thus begins the weirdest courtship between two mostly apathetic people in existence.

2) Shikako x younger!Kakashi (via linear time travel)

Insert fuinjutsu experiment gone horribly awry, Shikako ends up back in time. Specifically, during the Third Shinobi World War. Even more specifically, when certain teenaged Konoha ninja are being attacked by adult Iwa ninja. Acting mostly on instinct, she saves them and only later realizes that she has greatly shifted the timeline by preventing a) Rin’s kidnapping, b) Kakashi’s eye injury, c) Obito’s almost-death… so on and so forth, Madara no longer has a convenient Uchiha body to do his bidding, and so no attack during the Naruto’s birth, no Kyuubi rampage, no Uchiha almost-coup and subsequent massacre, etc, etc.

But before that, all she knows is that she’s landed in the middle of a war and the only person she trusts is an asshole teenager who has no idea who she is.

Given her obvious Nara looks, and some more persistence+fuinjutsu discussion, and the fact that she saved his students’ lives Minato totally (re)instates her as a Konoha ninja, in particular as a fifth member of their team. Anyway, it’s actually more like the fourth member of the Kakashi+Obito+Rin team since, being the Yellow Flash and all, Minato is called away to missions completely out of his students’ league and most solid teams have four members.

Cue a bewildered and stranded-out-of-time Shikako interacting with Team Minato and there are definitely opportunities for shipping there.

(Although, I’d be a little concerned that it overlaps too much with @langwrites’ Catch Your Breath. Not that Shikako and Keisuke are the same, but rather if you want to read about an SI!OC kicking ass and taking names in the Kakashi Gaiden era, you really should be reading that. It’s great)

edit: i’m weak and began writing this idea in “Gambling Away The Past.” it may turn into a series–i don’t know.

There are probably many more, but those two are the ones that spring to mind right now as ways I would be comfortable in even trying. I know this doesn’t really fill your prompt, but I don’t think I can do a proper one–both the ideas above are pretty big fic as I imagine them, and I don’t quite have the chops to pull either one of them off yet

However, if anyone else would like to adopt one of the ideas and run with it (or even further discuss what these potential fic would entail) then I would be more than happy to help out with that. I love brainstorming fic and would honestly be happy to see anon’s prompt get filled by someone, even if that person is not me.

Character Analysis: Descendants, The Lost Kids (2015-11-11)

November 11, 2015 jacksgreysonLeave a comment

A/N1: Because I missed Descendants, even if the Wicked World series kind of messes with all my head-canons from the movie… So as far as I’m concerned, the movie is alpha canon while the book(s) and animated shorts are beta canon. Not that canons necessarily correlate with head-canons buuuuut…

Anyway, the lost kids!

With any of my character analyses I am open to alternate interpretations, so please feel free to reblog with your own analysis. 🙂

Carlos
Phlegmatic – Apathetic/Conflicted
IS(F/t)P = Artisan = Composer/crafter
Air
Slytherin-Gryffindor

Evie
Sanguine – Optimist
EN(F/t)J = Idealist/Rational = Teacher/field-marshal
Water
“True” Slytherin

Jay
Choleric – Realist
ESTP = Artisan = Promoter
Earth
Slytherin-Hufflepuff

Mal
Melancholic – Cynic
INT(J/p) = Rational = Mastermind/architect
Fire
Slytherin-Ravenclaw

Reasoning under the cut.

The Four Temperament / Four Philosophy Ensemble

If you’ve read my previous character analyses, you’ll know that I’m relatively new and not very fond of this trope. That being said, it does have some redeemable insights, so I decided to proceed with it anyway. The links above lead to the TVTropes pages but, like Wikipedia, TVTropes is not the authority on these.

Here’s a really quick break down of what the ensembles are and how they correspond to each other:

Sanguine – extroverted, emotional, people-oriented – Optimist
Choleric – extroverted, unemotional, task-oriented – Realist
Melancholic – introverted, emotional, task-oriented – Cynic
Phlegmatic – introverted, unemotional, people-oriented – Apathetic/Conflicted

The two obvious ones for this were Jay and Mal. I consider both of them to be more “task-oriented” than the other two–to them people are either obstacles or means to an end (especially the Auradon students who are then subjected to their respective charm/intimidation). They may know how to manipulate people, but that doesn’t mean they necessarily care about other people’s feelings. Then when you compare the extroverted and unemotional traits of the Choleric temperament with the introverted and emotional traits of the Melancholic temperament, it seems pretty clear to me that Jay is Choleric and Mal is Melancholic. Their corresponding Philosophies match as well, with Jay being the Realist and Mal being, in comparison, the Cynic.

Then for Evie and Carlos, the two “people-oriented” temperaments–Evie is undoubtedly an extrovert; while Carlos isn’t as definitively an introvert as Mal is, I do think he is one, especially what we see of him in the movie. As for emotional versus unemotional, it could be argued that both of them act emotionally during the events of the movie (unsurprising, considering how big a change it is for all of them) but I think, in comparison, Evie’s character arc is more about becoming more in touch with herself and her feelings whereas Carlos’ is making decisions despite his feelings.

I ultimately had to fall back on the Philosophies to choose. Hence, Evie as the Optimist–looking forward to Auradon, even if it was a big change, believing in herself even after Chad’s actions. And Carlos as the ~~Apathetic/~~Conflicted–~~both because, basically, once he had Dude he literally cared about nothing else for the rest of the movie,~~ because, as I said before, most of his story arc is making decisions despite his feelings, leaving the Isle despite/because of his conflicted feelings about his mother, reaching out to Dude despite being afraid of dogs, etc. The corresponding temperaments are then Sanguine for Evie and Phlegmatic for Carlos.

—

Myers-Briggs Type Indicator

Here’s the basics of the MBTI: it’s a set of four binaries which combine to produce one of sixteen distinct personality types. The binaries are:
Extroversion vs Introversion = self/society
Sensing vs iNtuition = learning/information
Thinking vs Feeling = decision-making
Judging vs Perceiving = planning/(re)acting

And so with that in mind, here’s the Lost kids:

Carlos – IS(F/t)P
As I’ve previously stated, I do believe Carlos is an introvert–not as much of one as Mal, but he doesn’t need people. More so in the book, he’s easily satisfied so long as he has stuff to tinker about with–in the movie, his story doesn’t revolve around people, it revolves around his own fears (of dogs, of his mother, of getting hurt) and him overcoming it. Sensors focus on facts and details more than the bigger picture, they inherently trust what they’ve experienced or what can be proven more than what could be (he’s quick to overcome his fear of dogs when presented with proof that Dude isn’t a rabid monster even though his mother told him otherwise). Feeling vs thinking I figure he is in the middle of the spectrum–given his book background of enjoying technical and scientific fields he is a little bit thinking, but the decisions we see him making in the movie are feelings based. For the most part, Carlos isn’t decisive–he goes along with other people’s plans–in addition, he’s adaptable (getting the alarm to shut off during the failed heist) and likes to mix work and play (literally playing video games before helping Mal plan the heist), hence Perceiving.

Evie – EN(F/t)J
Evie is the most extroverted of the group, she enjoys being around people and gets energized in group situations. Unlike Carlos, she is a big picture kind of person, always having the idea of meeting her very own Prince Charming, to the point where she trusted him even though she had no idea what kind of person he was (which, unfortunately for her, ended up being a heartbreaking asshole kind of person). Like Carlos, she is in the middle of the feeling vs thinking spectrum, though for slightly different reasons–for the movie she is mostly a Feeler due to her generosity, even excluding her crush manipulating her, she genuinely wanted to help Mal feel beautiful for her date with Ben. But there’s some pragmatism within that–wanting to impress her crush could lead to her fairytale ending, and when Lonnie wanted a new hairstyle Evie sought payment. As for Judging, well, her whole life has been following the large plan to find and marry a prince. Even without that, she’s constantly working (making absolutely gorgeous dresses and, at some point, a sleeping potion, when she’s not doing Chad’s homework), very decisive, and organized.

Jay – ESTP
Jay was, again, pretty easy to decide on. Despite his father’s “teaching,” Jay is both a team player and fond of groups–whether they be tourney players, princesses he can flirt with, or his friends. He is more on the sensing side, focusing more on what is tangible than not, and due to his task-orientedness almost to the point indifference he is more of a thinker than a feeler. Like Carlos, Jay is more of a reactor than an instigator (he follows, he doesn’t plan) and given his thieving spree early on he likewise believes in play before work.

Mal – INT(J/p)
Similarly, Mal was also pretty easy to decide on. She is an almost textbook case of introversion, and while some of that may be due to her misanthropy, she honestly does not need people or like crowds–she works best one-on-one. Like Evie, she is a big picture kind of person and her method of problem solving isn’t a single track method–in order to get the wand she sees and considers and even sort of implements multiple methods, she knows the wand is the Fairy Godmother’s so she cultivates a “relationship” with Jane, when that doesn’t yield anything, she plans the museum heist, when that fails, she seizes on the opportunity that the coronation presents–hence intuition (N).

The thinking vs feeling was a little tricky, not because I think she’s in the middle of the spectrum like Evie and Carlos, but because a lot of this movie was disguising her “thinking” tendencies for “feeling.” Let me explain–as previously mentioned, she is very task-oriented like Jay; people and their feelings are obstacles/tools, not something to be considered when making decisions–but basically the entire movie is about her emotional journey from following her mother’s orders to being her own person. Her decisions are in line to maximize benefit to herself–yes, even her “cure brownies” because she didn’t make them for Ben’s benefit but rather to alleviate her own guilt. Even her speech about the Lost kids staying in Auradon, it was a very logical breakdown of happiness–this makes you happy so you should stay here, this makes you unhappy so you shouldn’t go back, even though emotions don’t necessarily follow cause and effect like that.

It’s actually the the Judging vs perceiving spectrum which I think she falls in the middle for–ultimately, since she is the major decision maker of the group and her penchant for focusing on her work over play, I did decide on Judging more than perceiving. But she is still a little perceiving since the decision to get the wand was originally her mother’s and even though she was the planner of each of the different attempts to get the wand, they were pretty loose plans created as they went. Get to the museum, okay, now what? Can’t get past the forcefield, now what? Become Ben’s girlfriend before the coronation.

—

Keirsey Temperaments

The Keirsey Temperaments are somewhat based on MBTI, in that it splits the types into a set of four temperaments and then gives fancy titles to the types within the temperaments. You can go to the link above to check out the individual titles for the MB types (they’re pretty interesting reads).

The temperaments correspond to the MBTI binaries as such: _S_J = Guardian, _S_P = Artisan, _NF_ = Idealist, _NT_ = Rational. The temperaments are sort of like two binaries as well–focusing on Communication and Action, that is: Concrete vs Abstract communicators and Utilitarian vs Cooperative actors. So Guardians are Concrete Cooperators, Idealists are Abstract Cooperators, Artisans are Concrete Utilitarians, and Rationals are Abstract Utilitarians.

Surprisingly, unlike my previous character analyses, the Lost kids aren’t arranged so that there is one of each type of temperament. Or perhaps that shouldn’t be surprising; given that, for all their differences, they are all villain kids and from the Isle of the Lost, certain temperaments simply aren’t practical on the Isle.

From the above types for the Lost kids, we get Carlos as an Artisan (specifically Composer/crafter), Evie as either an Idealist or a Rational (specifically Teacher or field-marshal), Jay as an Artisan (Promoter), and Mal as a Rational (Mastermind/architect). For the most part, on the Isle, I do think that Carlos, Evie, and Mal are their lowercase designations–on the Isle you have to be careful with your feelings, and given that Mal’s mother basically rules the Isle Mal is subject to Maleficent’s plans, not her own.

Artisans and Rationals are both Utilitarians–both act pragmatically, ignoring/bending rules in order to achieve their goals. While Artisans generally focus on quick, effective payoffs, Rationals want to fulfill their objectives as thoroughly and efficiently as possible. On the Isle, that kind of utilitarian mindset is not only encouraged but also, possibly, literally cultivated by their parents.

Since most of the movie isn’t on Auradon, however, a lot of what we see of Carlos, Evie, and Mal are their uppercase designations. Carlos and Evie both have the freedom to use their emotions whereas Mal has to step up and be de facto leader of the group. It doesn’t really change much for either Carlos or Mal–Carlos is still an Artisan whereas Mal is still a Rational, but Evie jumps from Rational to Idealist. Idealists are Abstract Cooperators–they focus mostly on their hopes and the possibilities for the future, and try to reach their goals without breaking their personal code of ethics–which also matches pretty well with Evie’s Sanguine/Optimist designation.

—

Avatar Elements

Like Hogwarts Houses, which is the next section, I believe that the Elements from the Avatar series does provide some nifty looks into characters’ personalities as well as having a convenient numerical match up. The above link sends you to a list of bending arts in the Avatar world, but if you follow through to the main articles of the Elements you can find more in-depth descriptions on the spirituality behind the respective elements.

I actually did some brainstorming regarding a Descendants x Avatar fusion in which only the Lost kids (and Fairy Godmother) are benders. I stand by the elemental designations I gave to each of them there, but I’ll go into more detail here (character-wise, that is). So, I posit that Carlos is Air, Evie is Water, Jay is Earth, and Mal is Fire, and here is why:

Air is the element of freedom, pacifism, open-mindedness, and adaptability. In a symbolic sense, Carlos’ character arc is about him freeing himself from his past, his mother’s abuse, his fears. He’s never the one to instigate conflicts, is more likely to run than fight, and the rare cases when he stands up against his mother (in the video call) and Maleficent (at the coronation) it’s in defense of his friends not himself. He was willing to give Dude a chance, despite his phobia of dogs, and in a larger sense he was open to going to Auradon even though that’s where dogs are. As for adaptability, I’ve already mentioned it above so…

Water is the element of change, generosity, balance, and emotions. As previously stated, Evie is–especially amongst the Lost kids–generous and the most in touch emotionally; she knows her emotions and knows how to use emotions. Her story throughout the movie is about her achieving an inner peace, a balance between what she thinks she wants and what she actually needs, between expectations and being true to herself. All of them change in the movie, but with Evie it’s subtle. Visually, you see her outfits changing, yes–becoming softer and blending in more with the Auradon style–but character-wise she gains self-confidence. She goes from someone who sees her talents as a means to get a prince to someone who sees her talents as what makes her inherently amazing; she doesn’t need a prince to be complete, she already is.

Earth is the element of substance, determination, stability, and straightforwardness. Earth is, perhaps unsurprisingly, the least spiritual of the elements and is treated very pragmatically. Similarly, Jay’s character arc isn’t as emotionally wrought as the others’–sure, he does doubt the plan to steal the wand way before anyone else does, but it’s as much logical take on emotions much like Mal’s speech on happiness is–for the most part it’s just him shedding his father’s misanthropic lessons to reveal the literal team player that he really is underneath. But, he never really accepted that to begin with. When his friends are being threatened, he steps forward to protect them–even when it’s by Maleficent’s dragon form–he is, almost literally, the rock the others rely on.

Fire is the element of power (though it may be better to say that it is the element of energy), industry, creativity, and drive. As previously stated, Mal is hard working and artistic. Like in the Avatar series, Mal’s drive is at first twisted for her mother’s nefarious gains, whereas Zuko at first only knows how to power his bending through anger and hate. But, ultimately, both Zuko and Mal discover good and wrest control of their life away from their toxic parents and societal expectations. In AtLA, the Fire Nation only sees their bending as a way to destroy and consume, but as the Sun Warriors and dragons explain, that is only when they are out of control. When in control, fire isn’t destruction it’s creation which parallels Mal’s story line.

—

Hogwarts Houses (surely, no link is necessary… :P)

I greatly enjoyed @kisapandemonium‘s lovely GIF edit and, frankly, agree. The tag “#finally a group of slytherins we can all get behind” basically sums up what I loved so much about the Descendants movies. Because all of the Lost kids are Slytherins (and not because of the “Slytherin=evil” bullshit)–cunning, ambitious, pragmatic–and I’m so fond of that fact.

However, I also enjoy the idea (I don’t know where the original post is, sorry, but it’s not mine) that each of the Golden Trio represent another House–with Harry being Slytherin, Hermione being Ravenclaw, and Ron being Hufflepuff. I also enjoy the implication that follows, in that Neville is a “True” Gryffindor (I also don’t remember the original post, but I believe it was something like… Neville was a Hat stall only because he kept arguing against being a Gryffindor and the Hat was pretty damn sure he was a Gryffindor. Because the fact that Neville argued against the Hat). And so I kind of want to mix those two together.

While I do believe that all of the Lost kids are Slytherins–if we were to have “secondary House alignments” then Carlos would be Gryffindor, Jay would be Hufflepuff, and Mal would be Ravenclaw, while Evie is the “True” Slytherin. Carlos’ story arc is about facing his fears–dogs, physical confrontations (on the tourney field), his mother, Maleficent–hence, Gryffindor. Throughout the movie, Jay shows such utter loyalty to his friends that he even willingly throws himself in front of a dragon to protect them. As for the “Slyther-claw” vs the “True” Slytherin, that was a bit of a toss up. But, ultimately, Mal isn’t all that ambitious, certainly not in comparison to Evie. Mal was content on the Isle, graffitiing her symbol wherever she could put it and committing small acts of evil. Evie, in comparison, has always wanted more out of life–while that no longer includes a prince to marry, now it’s a desire to be more than what other people expect from her.

And that’s all, folks! If you got this far then I hoped you enjoyed 🙂

A/N2: It seems kind of cowardly to hide this in the author’s notes of a separate post, but I think Ain’t No Rest is officially going to be on hiatus. It, as I feared, collapsed under its own weight and lack of direction.

That being said, that does free me up to do other non-ANR Descendants fic. And I’m not saying that means I’ll do Once The Always, but I am planning on re-watching the TCoN movies soon so…

Tag: rant

A fan’s issues within Naruto-fandom